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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2011 15:03:10 GMT -5
Do you have a certain pantheon that you stick to? Or do you prefer to mix and match? Do you like to keep the balance within your chosen panteon or do you branch out? I have heard different views as to why people either do or do not believe in mixing of the pantheons. What are your views? Do you think that it is wrong to invoke a god from one pantheon and the goddess of another into the same circle? Some say that they get mad that you do that and will leave. Some say that they are all gods so what does it matter? I personally stick with one pantheon at a time as I would think the energies would be better suited to mingle but would like to hear everyones opinions. Thanks )O(
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rhynne
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Post by rhynne on Feb 11, 2011 18:00:49 GMT -5
wow. let's stick with one question at a time for now, otherwise I'll be here typing all day Obligatory disclaimer: these are all my personal views, thoughts, and opinions, so don't try and say that I'm speaking for such-and-such group/culture/tradition/etc. or say that these people suck because they think these things. They don't. I do. Thanks! ^^ ~flexes fingers~ Personally, when I began my Pagan path I really didn't know where I belonged. After (what seems to be what most folks do) beginning by dabbling a bit in Wicca, I then began looking around at different established Pagan groups and comparing my beliefs with theirs. I think I tend towards the Norse/Germanic gods and beings for two primary reasons: firstly, my ancestors are largely from Germany with a very few exceptions, and secondly I grew up with an awesome book of Norse myths, lovely pictures and all, and (ok I guess this is 3) I always preferred reading myths and folktales and fairytales to anything out of the Bible or what we were taught in Sunday school. I don't really have any close relationships with the Greek gods (their myths were the first I came across, so I was pretty familiar with them and their stories), but sometimes I think about Hecate. It took a lot of reading to find out that She is no crone! Although the stories say Zeus granted her dominion over land and sea and sky, it seems like she was the local goddess of what is now part of Turkey and, like many deities, was incorporated into the Greek pantheon. She is known for her torches--both for illumination and for battle--and knowing the way between worlds; she helped Demeter look for Persephone after Hades had abducted his new bride-to-be; a saffron cloak She wears, and dogs bark and her coming and going. The crossroads is Her holy place, She knows the way between.* (*this info can be found in greater detail at www.sacred-texts.com/ ) A few summers ago She appeared to me as the Milky Way. I was spending a lonely summer working long hours in the forest for my first internship identifying forest plants and doing other scientific grunt work. Freyr and Freyja were with me in that golden forest (though I doubt They care much for the mosquitoes, I certainly didn't!), and I grew to know and love Them. One night, I stepped outside of our cabin and looked up. I wish I could do that every night, look up and see so many stars and feel that awful--not terrible, but awe-full--sense of perspective, that what I'm looking at is only a small branch of one galaxy, one of untold millions in the universe. tiny. tiny. tiny. but She was there. I spoke her name, and knew. Since then, life is far more mundane. I'm out of college, meeting kind of almost regularly with my local Protogrove, and trying to get my first real job so I can avoid moving back in with my parents. As far as mixing pantheons, I think it really depends on Who is interested in you and what They have to teach you. If you are marked as a member of one and only one culture's deities, They'll let you know. On the other hand, I do have a problem with folks who do plug-n-play rituals without even trying to get to know the deity they're calling on for help. "Oh, Bastet is a good goddess for fertility, I'll call on Her next full moon. Maybe Demeter and Danu can be in there too, the more the better right?" (SARCASM) A gift for a gift, this is how any relationship works, personal, business, whatever. Get to know Them and They will come to know you.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2011 18:40:18 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing I totally agree that alot of people dont bother to get to know the energies that they are calling upon. They just think oh I hear she is good for this so imma call her. But saying that, calling upon them is the best way to feel their energies and get to know them. I guess that they could just call different ones until they feel one felt attractive to them and then they can go away and research them....hmmmm
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rhynne
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Post by rhynne on Feb 11, 2011 18:51:05 GMT -5
well, in my mind it's go read the myths first and see what you think of Them, and then go say hi in a ritual or however you like. For example, I've read the Norse myths a lot, and there's lots of material on Odin in there. somehow I've never yet felt a need to really get to know him in depth (yet). Part of that is that I lean more towards the Vanir anyway, and I just don't click with Him I guess.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2011 18:54:58 GMT -5
I am not sure you know because myths are man made. I don't really care what a myth says because sometimes they just are not true. Some myths suggest certain gods may be vicious but when you call to them and feel their energy they appear calming and healing. Let us take bast for instance in the fact that she was originally a sun goddess and then when the greeks related her with artemis she became a moon goddess. So if we are going by myth what would she be? I would say to find out you would have to work with her and then see if the energies you feel from her are more solar or luna.
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rhynne
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Post by rhynne on Feb 11, 2011 19:04:43 GMT -5
That's very true, I forgot about that part of it. The Norse myths say that the Moon is male, but I've always seen Her as female. I guess part of it is up to the individual and how you personally connect with Deity.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 11, 2011 19:08:53 GMT -5
Oh norse say he is the moon? thought it would be like celtic although that is mixed at times as far as i can tell
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Post by toujourspursang on Feb 11, 2011 22:44:01 GMT -5
I'm a bit tired at this point so if this starts to ramble and make no sense I apologize. I normally stick with the Greek pantheon, I know more about them than any other pantheon and I only usually work with Hecate. I do not call upon two deities from different pantheons at the same time, I find it an insult to the gods and to the actual practitioner. Calling them into a circle, I don't use a circle nor do I summon them. I am a hard polytheist so I don't see them as all faces of a higher being, I find they are all separate entities.
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Post by mystrick on Feb 12, 2011 9:29:29 GMT -5
Plain and simple... I mix and use whoever is needed for what I am doing. I do have favs but its mainly mix.
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Post by auberondraenenwen on Feb 16, 2011 8:54:18 GMT -5
I tend to mostly stuck to a mixture of Anglo-Celtic and Greeko-Roman. Along with bits and pieces from the rest of Northern Europe and some Hoodoo and Native American spirits as they are local to me.
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Post by mystrick on Feb 16, 2011 11:16:00 GMT -5
Ok so upon thinking about this and going back and reading what I put, its not making sense to me. I should put that I use a mixture of deities, but not at the same time. You just never know what you are going to get. Like I said in my other post I do have my favorites, but none that I feel could be mixed. However I tend to do research to find the right God(dess) for what I am doing. For example if I am doing a home and hearth spell, one of the best Goddess to use is Hera, but at the same time I would never use her. She can turn on you in a heartbeat. I would have to use someone else that isn't so destructive. After all she did cause her husband/brother's girlfriend to blow up by telling her that he was a God and to have him prove it. Hince how Demetris came about. Now I am rambling lol sorry.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 16, 2011 15:23:27 GMT -5
And let us not forget chucking her own son from olympus although like I said I do not really believe what man tells us when it comes to stories of the gods. I personally wouldnt think that she would turn on you if you worked with her. Being the queen of the greek gods I would assume that has stability. I dont really see any god as being too destructive but again this is personal views
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Post by mystrick on Feb 16, 2011 23:17:27 GMT -5
That is true, but a lot of the books I've read about her kinda lead you to believe that you should only work with her of 100 %. If you have skeletons in your closet then you are well screwed lol (not that I do) just can't think of how I want to word this.
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Post by Wandering Druid on Feb 17, 2011 3:37:23 GMT -5
OK! I guess I can share some of my beliefs on this. Before I do I want to point out that I have great respect for the work ADF has done and think the world of our present Archdruid, but have decided I will not be renewing my 9 year membership.
Why? Well one, because a few members who have some influence openly admitted that they are atheist and don’t believe in the actual existence of the Kindred even though it states clearly in the by-laws that atheist are not to be allowed to join. That points to the fact that they felt you have to believe in some form of the divine. Yet they keep insisting that ADF is an orthapraxy religion and that belief is not required. But then they contradict that by stating that “Building relationships with the Kindred is a central part of ADF.” Huh?! How do you build a relationship with something you don’t believe exist? I could live with the atheist members. But! Some are entering the clergyhood. Huh?
Bertie quoted me, I believe it was on our facebook group. But I will repeat it. “An atheist priest invoking a deity they don’t believe exist is like a crazy homeless person talking to a lamp post.” Needless to say, a few in ADF were offended. Those who were offended basically just outted themselves as atheist. So I discovered that more than just the ones who openly admitted they were atheists had invaded ADF. With that said, the majority of ADF still believe the Kindred exist in some way or another. Including our present awesome Archdruid Kirk Thomas. So I have some hope for them.
If ADF would be honest with themselves, they would acknowledge that they are the best of both orthapraxy and orthodoxy like say Hinduism. But that’s another whole post. Besides I still love ADF and believe in their core vision. But I can’t out of respect for the First Ancestors stay a member to a group that is willing to initiate atheist as priest and allow them to invoke the Kindred.
Now, should we mix pantheons? Including outside of the Indo-European spectrum? As a Rewilder Druid I say yes! Why? Well for one, I believe if the Druids had not been wiped out, they would have evolved to recognize all the First Ancestors. Second, because today, at least in America we are mostly of mixed heritage. Reverence for our ancestors is a core part of the practice and beliefs within Druidry across the (all Druidic traditions share this belief) board. So let’s say you are part, Egyptian, Hebrew or say Chinese or Japanese, or are part African. You would be disrespecting them ancestors by not including them in your rituals, hence denying a part of yourself. Also you be disrespecting the deities they revered just because they are not Indo-European. Would that be right?
Also, within the Rewilder spiritual (it’s not a religion but a spiritual & political philosophy) movement, reverence for the Spirit of the land plays a central role in their beliefs. In Druidry and most Wiccan tradition this is referred to as the sacredness of place. So, even though one is not say Native American, should not one still honour the Spirits of the land in say the Americas if you were born there or moved to it and call it home? You wouldn’t say invoke some river spirit from say Ireland or a tree spirit from say Germany would you? You would invoke the kindred of the land you live in. They are not Indo-European. Also, should you not show some respect to the deities of this land as well as the ones of your ancestors?
As far as the myths go? I don’t take them literally. Look at the trouble that got the Christians into? For me, the myths are the teaching stories (metaphors) written by the wise ones among our ancestors. In ADF we call these the Mighty Dead, those ancestors who were the wise and learned ones among our ancestors. They chose I believe, to make the gods the main characters of these stories to add power to them. I don’t believe Nuada actually lost his hand or say Zeus was really the egotistical womanizer they made him out to be, or that Loki did half of the bad things they blamed him for. Also Kali in the pre-Hindu tradition of Vedaism was seen as a loving Great Mother and not the murderess that Shiva has to soothe in Hinduism.
I like to point out that most Westerners make the mistake of thinking that Vedaism and Hinduism are the same thing. They are not. Three offshoot religions were born from Vedaism; Hinduism, Jainism & Buddhism. In Vedaism it is Indra that is the king of the gods, not Brahma. In Persia Indra was seen as a demon. So you see, the myths can be confusing if you try to take them literally.
I like to point out that Saraswati shares a spot on my altar alongside Brighid. In Hinduism, she is consider the Mother of the Vedas and is a goddess of knowledge, music and art, and is the wife of Brahma. Yet in Vedaism she is seen only as a minor river goddess. Getting the picture? Hinduism is not recognized as Indo-European, but Vedaism is. I don’t care. I have built a relationship with Saraswati in her Hindu form.
Another thing that was brought up is whether you should mix them in the same ritual. I say that depends on how strong your relationship with them is.
First, one should build a relationship with them before you go asking them favors. Reading about them is not enough. You really need to build a relationship with them. Do you think Marilyn Monroe or James Dean or even John Wayne were anything like the myths around them? Second, you shouldn’t see them as something you use like a tool. They have feelings. They are not your sickle or athame.
Allow me to give you an example. Imagine your neighbor is a bully and one day he comes over and beats you up. You go and jump on the computer and start researching different Martial Artists. You decide that Steven Segal & Jean Claude Van Damn are perfect for the job. So you call up Steven Segal and you are like; “Mr. Segal, I read a lot about you and I think you are perfect. I would like to use you to beat up this bully next door and I going to have you do it with Jean Claude Van Damn.” A deadly silence on the phone. Then he responds. “First off, no one uses me. I’m not a knife or sword. Secondly, why the hell should I do this for you? I don’t know you. You call me out of the blue, a complete stranger and you expect me to do you a favor. And another thing! I don’t care how much you read about me. You obviously don’t have a clue about me. If you knew me, you know I hate Van Scamns ass! I think he is a phonie and have challenge him several times to a match and the coward has refused (this is true. LOL).” He slams the phone down in your ear and you are left sitting there feeling stunned and foolish.
So yah. You really want to build a relationship with the different deities before you ask them favors & you might want to give each their own little shrine/space till you know them well and know who gets along with who. And don’t believe all the tabloids (myths) about them lol
Now this is all my personal belief. You can take it or leave it. Just don’t accept it at face value. Question everything I have said. Challenge it within your own heart and mind. ;D
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 17, 2011 12:24:32 GMT -5
Oh wow joe. Another amazing posts! That has really got me thinking. I get to know deity by working with them which usually has me asking them for something at the start and then If I like the energy they have then I pray to them often just chatting away and saying thanks and all that, Do you have any suggestions for getting to know deities in which you don't end up asking them to lend you strength or courage or anything like that. Would it be through meditations? offerings? Thanks in advance
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